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	<title>Comments on: Riots, not Parades</title>
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	<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/</link>
	<description>The Boys Blog</description>
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		<title>By: MrChives</title>
		<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/comment-page-1/#comment-29216</link>
		<dc:creator>MrChives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/#comment-29216</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s annoying...ahem----anyone who doesn&#039;t know what the Latin phrase ad hominem means, GO GET A DICTIONARY. Stop attacking me personally, and engage in a process of thought that yields some understanding of the ISSUES being discussed. That being said, I am -despite the fact that I attend a Catholic University- an atheist. Now, what I&#039;m saying might be drivel, but where is it moralist? The only thing I&#039;ve said is that we have made progress. I think its obvious that we have. I also conveyed the opinion that (this is important!) we&#039;re not where we should be. I&#039;m not arguing for the preservation of the status quo. I&#039;m merely saying that the status quo is better than it once was. Because what it once was is what it STILL IS in some Middle Eastern countries, and If you think that&#039;s better, If you feel as though that&#039;s the golden age that we backwards democracies have lost, feel free to move there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s annoying&#8230;ahem&#8212;-anyone who doesn&#8217;t know what the Latin phrase ad hominem means, GO GET A DICTIONARY. Stop attacking me personally, and engage in a process of thought that yields some understanding of the ISSUES being discussed. That being said, I am -despite the fact that I attend a Catholic University- an atheist. Now, what I&#8217;m saying might be drivel, but where is it moralist? The only thing I&#8217;ve said is that we have made progress. I think its obvious that we have. I also conveyed the opinion that (this is important!) we&#8217;re not where we should be. I&#8217;m not arguing for the preservation of the status quo. I&#8217;m merely saying that the status quo is better than it once was. Because what it once was is what it STILL IS in some Middle Eastern countries, and If you think that&#8217;s better, If you feel as though that&#8217;s the golden age that we backwards democracies have lost, feel free to move there.</p>
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		<title>By: sbadman</title>
		<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/comment-page-1/#comment-29209</link>
		<dc:creator>sbadman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 23:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/#comment-29209</guid>
		<description>If the Stonewall riots are just history for you, I highly recommend the 1995 British movie &quot;Stonewall&quot;.  http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114550/   It&#039;s a regular movie, not a documentary, but it accurately depicts the incredible repression back then.  It is also a really entertaining movie.  It&#039;s about a Southern gay boy, Mattie, that moves to New York City because, well, that&#039;s all there was back then.  You discover what gay society is like as he discovers it.  (Yes, it&#039;s true that the few gay bars that existed back then were controlled by the Mafia).  When the riot finally happens at the end, you&#039;ll be standing up and cheering with Mattie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Stonewall riots are just history for you, I highly recommend the 1995 British movie &#8220;Stonewall&#8221;.  <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114550/" rel="nofollow">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114550/</a>   It&#8217;s a regular movie, not a documentary, but it accurately depicts the incredible repression back then.  It is also a really entertaining movie.  It&#8217;s about a Southern gay boy, Mattie, that moves to New York City because, well, that&#8217;s all there was back then.  You discover what gay society is like as he discovers it.  (Yes, it&#8217;s true that the few gay bars that existed back then were controlled by the Mafia).  When the riot finally happens at the end, you&#8217;ll be standing up and cheering with Mattie.</p>
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		<title>By: Topperscott</title>
		<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/comment-page-1/#comment-29195</link>
		<dc:creator>Topperscott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/#comment-29195</guid>
		<description>Stonewall was important because it marked the first time gay people realized that we did not need to ASK for our rights to be recognized, we needed to DEMAND that they be recognized.  Mr. Jefferson wrote &quot;We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal.&quot;

That seems to be the part of the quote that everybody remembers, but it is the words that follow that are even more important.  
&quot;That they are &lt;b&gt;endowed by their Creator&lt;/b&gt; with certain unalienable rights...&quot;

Our rights are not &lt;em&gt;granted to us&lt;/em&gt; by government, they are ours by birthright.

I&#039;m past the point where I care much about how the straight world thinks of me.  I don&#039;t much care whether they &quot;accept&quot; me or not.  But I&#039;ll be damned if I will accept anything less than full recognition of the rights that I was born with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stonewall was important because it marked the first time gay people realized that we did not need to ASK for our rights to be recognized, we needed to DEMAND that they be recognized.  Mr. Jefferson wrote &#8220;We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal.&#8221;</p>
<p>That seems to be the part of the quote that everybody remembers, but it is the words that follow that are even more important.<br />
&#8220;That they are <b>endowed by their Creator</b> with certain unalienable rights&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Our rights are not <em>granted to us</em> by government, they are ours by birthright.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m past the point where I care much about how the straight world thinks of me.  I don&#8217;t much care whether they &#8220;accept&#8221; me or not.  But I&#8217;ll be damned if I will accept anything less than full recognition of the rights that I was born with.</p>
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		<title>By: The Pope</title>
		<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/comment-page-1/#comment-29194</link>
		<dc:creator>The Pope</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/#comment-29194</guid>
		<description>MrChives and fanofgrendel are our resident moral pricks and defenders of the status quo. 
It comes as no fucking surprise to me MrChives that you go to a Catholic college.  I suspect you may even be the next Pope.  
You can kiss my ass MrChives.  
Fuck you and your moralist drivel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MrChives and fanofgrendel are our resident moral pricks and defenders of the status quo.<br />
It comes as no fucking surprise to me MrChives that you go to a Catholic college.  I suspect you may even be the next Pope.<br />
You can kiss my ass MrChives.<br />
Fuck you and your moralist drivel.</p>
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		<title>By: MrChives</title>
		<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/comment-page-1/#comment-29187</link>
		<dc:creator>MrChives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/#comment-29187</guid>
		<description>&quot;The current “gay” world is an affront to the freedom we once had.&quot;

Ah, yes, I remember the good ol&#039; days; Sodomy as a capital crime, execution and imprisonment, sodomy as a non-capital criminal offence, fines and defamation, sodomy as a de facto abomination, vigilante &#039;justice&#039;,  Aushwitz, Matthew Shepard, Anita Bryant, no political clout, no job security, shunned by all religious leaders; good times, good times. 

You&#039;re &#039;imaginary golden-age&#039; fallacy is just barely worse than the well-poisoning/strawman/ad hominem trifecta that follows.

I&#039;m not sure what exactly you mean by &#039;modern revisionist gay dogma&#039;, but I can walk down the street in my town, I can go to class in a Catholic college, and I can walk into a bar and buy a drink (...except that I&#039;m 20 and a teetotaler...) without being brutally murdered. I tend to call that progress. Not as far as we can and will go (as long as the phrase &#039;gay panic defense&#039; exists, what we&#039;re experiencing is a parody of justice), but progress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The current “gay” world is an affront to the freedom we once had.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah, yes, I remember the good ol&#8217; days; Sodomy as a capital crime, execution and imprisonment, sodomy as a non-capital criminal offence, fines and defamation, sodomy as a de facto abomination, vigilante &#8216;justice&#8217;,  Aushwitz, Matthew Shepard, Anita Bryant, no political clout, no job security, shunned by all religious leaders; good times, good times. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re &#8216;imaginary golden-age&#8217; fallacy is just barely worse than the well-poisoning/strawman/ad hominem trifecta that follows.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what exactly you mean by &#8216;modern revisionist gay dogma&#8217;, but I can walk down the street in my town, I can go to class in a Catholic college, and I can walk into a bar and buy a drink (&#8230;except that I&#8217;m 20 and a teetotaler&#8230;) without being brutally murdered. I tend to call that progress. Not as far as we can and will go (as long as the phrase &#8216;gay panic defense&#8217; exists, what we&#8217;re experiencing is a parody of justice), but progress.</p>
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		<title>By: Yeah!</title>
		<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/comment-page-1/#comment-29177</link>
		<dc:creator>Yeah!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/#comment-29177</guid>
		<description>Rimmer, you are absolutely right!   The current &quot;gay&quot; world is an affront to the freedom we once had.  If you don&#039;t believe me read some of the freaks who come to write on Josh&#039;s tiny chat site.  Aside from Josh and only a handful of others, most of the people coming to this blog are quite repressive.  Most only parrot what has become modern revisionist gay dogma.  In most instances I would rather take my chances with the &quot;straight&quot; world today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rimmer, you are absolutely right!   The current &#8220;gay&#8221; world is an affront to the freedom we once had.  If you don&#8217;t believe me read some of the freaks who come to write on Josh&#8217;s tiny chat site.  Aside from Josh and only a handful of others, most of the people coming to this blog are quite repressive.  Most only parrot what has become modern revisionist gay dogma.  In most instances I would rather take my chances with the &#8220;straight&#8221; world today.</p>
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		<title>By: Rimmer</title>
		<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/comment-page-1/#comment-29168</link>
		<dc:creator>Rimmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/#comment-29168</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;these riots proved to the police and to the world that the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered men and women of New York City, and the world, would not give up without a fight.  The Stonewall Riots are regarded as the beginning of the modern gay rights movement. Marches are held in many cities each year at the end of June to commemerate this historic event. The Stonewall Riots stand for oppressed people demanding to be treated as human beings, as the Constitution of the United States promises&lt;/i&gt;

Josh - I hope you&#039;re quoting this from somewhere rather than writing it, because it is a typical example of the mis-representation of the stonewall riots by the modern gay movement - the modern gay movement which re-invents the past to serve its own narrow contemporary purposes.

My first thought was that to be true to the history of the event itself the list should say &quot;gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and boyloving&quot;. Then I realised that actually the words lesbian, transgendered and even bisexual (probably even &#039;gay&#039;) are totally anachronistic ... not only the words, but probably the concepts as well. When the word &#039;gay&#039; was originally adopted it included all those other categories (including boylover) and many more: the need for a list (LGBT and as many more as you feel politically-correctly-obliged to add) just shows how much the &#039;gay&#039; movement has become impoverished and dulled and divided.

Read Destroyer - from the first to the current edition - to see how the contemporary narrow view of gay politics is self-persecuting, self-oppressive, dishonest about its own history, and the product of a &#039;community&#039; in denial and at war within itself. For those who don&#039;t know: destroyermag dot com.

- The Rimmer</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>these riots proved to the police and to the world that the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered men and women of New York City, and the world, would not give up without a fight.  The Stonewall Riots are regarded as the beginning of the modern gay rights movement. Marches are held in many cities each year at the end of June to commemerate this historic event. The Stonewall Riots stand for oppressed people demanding to be treated as human beings, as the Constitution of the United States promises</i></p>
<p>Josh &#8211; I hope you&#8217;re quoting this from somewhere rather than writing it, because it is a typical example of the mis-representation of the stonewall riots by the modern gay movement &#8211; the modern gay movement which re-invents the past to serve its own narrow contemporary purposes.</p>
<p>My first thought was that to be true to the history of the event itself the list should say &#8220;gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered and boyloving&#8221;. Then I realised that actually the words lesbian, transgendered and even bisexual (probably even &#8216;gay&#8217;) are totally anachronistic &#8230; not only the words, but probably the concepts as well. When the word &#8216;gay&#8217; was originally adopted it included all those other categories (including boylover) and many more: the need for a list (LGBT and as many more as you feel politically-correctly-obliged to add) just shows how much the &#8216;gay&#8217; movement has become impoverished and dulled and divided.</p>
<p>Read Destroyer &#8211; from the first to the current edition &#8211; to see how the contemporary narrow view of gay politics is self-persecuting, self-oppressive, dishonest about its own history, and the product of a &#8216;community&#8217; in denial and at war within itself. For those who don&#8217;t know: destroyermag dot com.</p>
<p>- The Rimmer</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/comment-page-1/#comment-29165</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 11:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/#comment-29165</guid>
		<description>Learn your history or it may be repeated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Learn your history or it may be repeated.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/comment-page-1/#comment-29161</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Mar 2009 07:51:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.milkboys.org/article/riots-not-parades/#comment-29161</guid>
		<description>(the coin-throwing has some beauty in it&#039;s own: bystanders were wondering about the commotion, &#039;til someone said: &quot;They didn&#039;t pay off the cops!&quot;, to which someone else yelled: &quot;Let&#039;s pay them off!&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(the coin-throwing has some beauty in it&#8217;s own: bystanders were wondering about the commotion, &#8217;til someone said: &#8220;They didn&#8217;t pay off the cops!&#8221;, to which someone else yelled: &#8220;Let&#8217;s pay them off!&#8221;)</p>
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